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Julie Banderas:
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Well, for more on this, let's bring in Mark Dubowitz,
the Executive Director of the Foundation for Defensive Democracies. Thank you
so much, Mark, for talking to us. So the FBI has joined the CIA today in the
assessment that the Russian President was directly involved in the hack
attack, based on information, new information coming out that authorities say
come from in directly inside the Kremlin. So the question is what do we do
with this information?
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Mark Dubowitz:
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Julie, I know what we haven't done for eight years and
that's President Obama has really not responded at all to Russian aggression.
I mean, he has married this soaring, tough rhetoric with really inaction, and
so for eight years Vladimir Putin has had the President's number. And the
President has done nothing to push back against Putin, so it's no surprise
that Putin feels that he actually has complete impunity to do what he wants,
when he wants.
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Julie Banderas:
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John Carlin, the former Head of the Justice Department's
National Security Division tells ABC News and I want to quote it. "If
you mess with the United States, we will mess with you back." He added,
it's important the U.S. starts, "Taking actions to show others that it's
not open season on the United States' symptoms, systems, whether they are
private or government." How much of this could have been prevented by
the Obama Administration over the past eight years?
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Mark Dubowitz:
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Well, I think John is exactly right. John's a great man
and a great American, and I think he has a great insight into what has and
has not been done, and I think those words suggest that eight years of
Russian aggression, Russian cyber attacks, and really, cyberattacks by the
North Koreans, by the Chinese, by the Iranians. I mean, all our adversaries
were gunning for us and I think there's every indication that there was very
little that we did in order to create a strong message of deterrents that we
are the United States and don't mess with us.
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Julie Banderas:
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The question now is whether incoming President-Elect
Donald Trump is prepared to make an example of those who have attacked
America in cyberspace, considering he once said on a Fox News Sunday
Interview, "I think it's ridiculous. I think it's just another excuse. I
don't believe it. No, I don't believe it at all." And then shortly, and
I know you know about this, at 6 a.m., on Friday, he continued to defend
Russia and Putin and he Tweeted the following. Let's put that up on the
screen. "Are we talking about the same cyberattack where it was revealed
that head of the DNC illegally gave Hillary the questions to the debate?"
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And at a Thank You Event Thursday night with some of our
top campaign donors and fundraisers, Clinton said that she too believed
Russian-backed hackers went after her campaign because of a person grudge
Putin had against her. So the question is when is Trump going to believe this
information? And what is he going to do about it?
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Mark Dubowitz:
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Look, I think Donald Trump, when he is President Trump,
is going to have a much greater strategic objective. I mean, I think what he
is signaling is that he doesn't believe Russia is America's number one enemy.
He believes radical Islam is the number one enemy. I think he believes that
China is a rising power and he's challenging us in East Asia. I think he's
looking to forge some kind of relationship with Vladimir Putin to see if he
can solve some of these other problems. I think, because of that, he's not,
he doesn't want to pick a fight with Vladimir Putin before he actually
occupies the Oval Office.
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And I think that's part of the reason why he is not out
on the attack right now. It is entirely possible for three things to be true.
Number one, that Donald Trump won the Presidency decisively. Number two, that
Democrats ran a lousy campaign. And then number three, Vladimir Putin and
Russian intelligence have been launching cyberattacks against the United
States. All of those things can be true.
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Julie Banderas:
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Okay. Let's talk about Rex Tillerson as Secretary of
State, because right now, there's a lot of pressure on behalf of Republicans
on President-Elect Donald Trump that he needs to believe this, but most
importantly, how does this affect the vote for Rex Tillerson, the CEO of
Exxon, and an unabashed admirer of Putin? His pick to be Secretary of State
does fall in a time now that could prove to be extremely controversial. Does
anything change here and do we need to hear from Trump on this?
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Mark Dubowitz:
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Look, Rex Tillerson's got decades of experience doing
major international deals in Russia, dealing with Putin. I'm not sure he's an
unabashed admirer of Vladimir Putin. He's certainly has a relationship with
Putin, and if you're Donald Trump, and your strategic objective is to take on
Iran, take on radical Islam, and try to neutralize rising Chinese power, then
maybe Rex Tillerson is the man you need as Secretary of State to deal with
Vladimir Putin. Clear-eyed, tough-minded, and with leverage and negotiating
skill, but I think you're right. It will be controversial through the
Confirmation process and we'll have to see how many Republicans actually back
the President on this.
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Julie Banderas:
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What do you think about the President? President Obama
has come out and slammed Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin, and the sources now
that are confirming what most pretty much believed. It's not a huge shock. We
all kind of saw this coming, but what do you say to President Obama, who's
now dealing with this? And how, if at all, will this affect the Electoral
College that's getting ready to vote on Monday, the 19th?
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Mark Dubowitz:
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Look, I think it should have no impact on the Electoral
College. I mean, President Trump won decisively. He didn't win decisively
because of Russian cyberhacks. He won decisively because of eight years of
President Obama, of failed policies, of frustration amongst the American
people, in the heartland on jobs and economic issues, and also, a feeling
that America really was not winning anymore. I mean, I think that was a very
powerful phrase that Donald Trump used repeatedly, and I think a lot of
Americans believe that. That they were losing to Putin, they were losing to
the Ayatollahs in Iran, to the North Koreans who were ramping up their
nuclear weapons program, to ISIS that was on the rampage.
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I mean, there was a real sense that we were losing
internationally, and I think this President, President Obama, that will be
his legacy. Of foreign policy failure and he's handing the next President,
President Trump, a number of major problems that are going to be very
difficult to solve, but I think they're going to have to be solved by
somebody who's decisive, that shows American power, and uses American
leverage on the negotiating table.
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Julie Banderas:
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All right. Mark Dubowitz. Thank you.
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